Recently, I got the chance to speak with Martin Bisi - producer, performer and cultural antagonist. In the interview for "Punk Globe" magazine, Martin told us about his influences and becoming of producer, about his work with numerous artists - from Sonic Youth to The Dresden Dolls, about NYC-musical climate and producer's work nowadays. Hope you'd enjoy! 

Punk Globe: Watching one of the videos – live-show of Martin Bisi Band, where you played “Waves On My Mind”, I can’t but notice strong bluesy chords. Could you please tell me about your influences, and how your musical taste been changing over the years ?

Martin: I try to keep any bluesy-ness to a minimum. I would say the blues have not been a big influence on me, except for being filtered through 60’s music I listened to, like Jimi Hendrix and rock in general. But straight up blues, like the “12-bar progression” is very loaded culturally, and really predates the artists that inspired me. I think the most influence on my young mind, came from more ‘prog’ stuff like Frank Zappa.

I think after a certain age, the influence started coming more from music happening directly around me, locally in New York.

Punk Globe: You started working as soundmen in CBGB’s. Could you please tell me, a little bit about the club itself ?

Martin: CBGB’s then was the most inclusive of the main punk-oriented venues in NY around 1980. It didn’t have a velvet rope like the Mudd Club, which on the other hand hosted experimental music more often. And CB’s wasn’t as Glam-y as Max’s Kansas City, which made me feel like I wasn’t fashionable enough - Max’s was also 2 blocks from Warhol’s Factory, so had this underground superstar thing happening, which is fine but didn’t draw me in.

Punk Globe: Before it, did you had any interest in production side of the work ?

Martin: I wasn’t interested in music production specifically at the beginning. When I was in High School, I was in theater class, designing sets and lighting. So it was from there that I was interested in live events, and could contribute some stage management at complicated events, like at the 12 hour (!) Zu Manifestival in 1978 -with Glenn Branca and a few UK psychedelic bands like Gong. That event in particular helped me get called on for crazy events and tours.

Punk Globe: You was born in New York city, and grew up here. In the 80’s alternative musical scene established itself. How do you think, what led to appearance of this, new musical standard in New York of that days ?

Martin: I try to remind people of how much hatred there was, at least in my world, for mainstream music late-70’s-80’s. Now most ears think there was good stuff all around (true of course), but then it was pretty polarised. Also the late 70’s, when ‘alternative’ started to form, came after the 60’s and that cultural revolution, so the larger direction of music was pretty horrifying. Most of us weren’t down with disco (unless secretly), and we weren’t down with New Wave -hence ‘No Wave’ -Debbie Harry being an exception.

NY then also had a great combination of factors, it was very affordable, on the world stage, poor but yet there was money around, so when there were opportunities waiting on the sides if things started looking strong -like Hip Hop coming down from the Bronx and being a big hit with the fashion and art world.

Punk Globe: Can you say that social-cultural processes of that period inspired you becoming producer or it was just one of the factors that affected your work at that point ?

Martin: I really just wanted to be involved. I had always liked counter-culture. So wherever it manifest i was interested in contributing. So with recording, that just seemed like something that needed to be done -recording wasn’t very affordable then, and i also didn’t like how records sounded mid 70’s to early 80’s. So feeling like there was another path sonically, inspired me to keep going.

Punk Globe: That period was the most intense for your producer’s career. What allowed you to work in such tempo ? What was your stimulus ?

Martin: Actually, the tempo was slower initially, through maybe ‘84. Then came the period of long sessions, and projects…Months at a time, and 13hr sessions. That’s because there started being money and bigger labels. I still think the quantity of artists I worked with was lower then, particularly than it is now. It just seems like a lot ‘cause you can look at several years at a time.

Also now people expect to work super fast -faster than I’ve ever seen. So in general there’s more recordings being cranked out.

Punk Globe: There are lots of things uniting very different artists you’ve been working with. Sonic Youth, Swans, White Zombie, Rat At Rat R… Were there any common musical tendencies you’ve been following or the connection was formed by their common sources of inspiration ?

Martin: Everyone you mentioned wanted to be over the top, extreme. And there was room sonically to find a completely new sound (harder now). No one I knew wanted to have a ‘classic’ sound. Sort of an exception was White Zombie who seemed to really want a characteristically ‘metal’ sound, and were frustrated that we all thought they were a noise band. 

Punk Globe: You’ve been working in BC Studio since 1979 – a few years ago, you successfully presented a documentary movie about the place itself, your work there and cultural glory of the studio. Most of the people, said that getting there, they wanted to experiment. How do you think, where does this inspiration comes from ? Do you have a certain psychological climate, you, as producer like to create ?

Martin: Experimentalism is and has been at a premium in NY. It’s not that everything needs to be experimental, but it’s a cultural value -the Hardcore bands from Long Island who like John Zorn would be an example. Also aggression, or ‘edgy’ is part of the NY self image. You see that even in film. So that is a strong side of NY music. At the time i started, there was also ‘fun’ music, and I engaged in that too, but it ultimately wasn’t the most essential stuff I would do.

Punk Globe: Working with very different artists you used to deal with the standards of all these people and how they want to see their records. What allows you to focus on many different directions ? Is there any formula you’re following ?

Martin: It feels like there are 4-5 different sonic directions that I specialize in, so i try to work with people who want one of those paths. Other than that I always ask myself what I like most, or is most unique about an artist or song, and make sure that that comes across. I also try to keep my eye on the big picture and avoid too much focus on details, whenever possible. Though I can really go into the details, and sometimes that’s important - so having a good process is essential for making compelling records.

 

Punk Globe: Most of experimental musicians kind of keen to working maximally “free”. And of course, there are many examples of the situations, when, while working in studio, producer’s heard something and immediately started working on it. Inspired by artists drive and vibes they’re listening to. Isn’t it hard to “catch” these things on tape ?   

Martin: Part of making experiment records is often to record a lot of material - to play for maybe 2-4 hours. So my role there is to help with editing, and occasionally with arranging, like muting an instrument for a section to emphasize structure. And since a lot of experimental music is more effects-driven now, i might see about adding effects here and there in the mixing stage

Punk Globe: In one of your interviews you said about the dynamic of recording. That, after recording drum-parts ( for example ) artist would need to add a certain dynamics to vocal parts. In these cases, what helps you to understand how you should use the dynamics of different instruments getting all these pieces together and making them work with each other ?

Martin: I think when I said ‘dynamic of recording’ I maybe meant the interpersonal dynamics of the people involved and their individual processes, and the need to make it all work together. For instance, when doing basic tracking with drums, the energy of the drummer needs to be considered, maybe not having them play 1 song too many times. Or if it’s singing, and the singer is sounding good, might be best to have them keep singing rather than mix in other work.

As for the other meaning of dynamics - loud vs soft. Somehow that’s less of a concern these days. Big dynamics were popular in the 90’s -the chorus slamming in, with a huge contrast. We used to talk about that a lot in the studio, sometimes in overdubs, like having 3 guitars in the chorus in contrast to 1 guitar in the verse. Or it could be done in the mix.

I still like that esthetic of the 90’s, so I try to slip it in during the mixing sometimes.

Punk Globe: I guess here would be logically right to ask you about your work with Sonic Youth. From one point “Bad Moon Rising” and “EVOL” are not as experimental as their previous records. From another – one of the key features on the records, that characterizes your recording methods is certain depth of the sound. Wasn’t it hard for you to add recent changes to their sound saving this primary experimental coloring ?

Martin: I wasn’t very familiar with Sonic Youth’s previous records when they came in the studio. I maybe listened once. I definitely didn’t see them as ‘experimental music’. They were more of a rock band than I was used to at the time.  I was concerned with the sound being evocative, beautiful at times, mixed with the occasional harshness. I think they were coming from a place of wanting it to be as Punk as possible - particularly Kim during “Evol””. So we were all approaching it differently. Lee was the most experimental of all, and the others just let him do his thing. I ultimately wanted it to sound good, and they tolerated that with minimal objection.

Punk Globe: You never described yourself as “psychologist” like some producers do. “Social process” always been prevailing in your work. But in musical work, there is no strict difference between “being a producer” and “being an engineer” – with some cases the meaning may be the same. So are there any difference for you ?

Martin: I think it’s always a “co”-production. So even if I’m just the engineer -as with jazz-ier improv, I still participate in realizing the vision, even if it’s just capturing the sounds, and it still needs to be discussed together. And if the artist wants me to really Produce, there’s still always back and forth on ideas.

The amount of participation on my part varies on different projects, or even different songs. So there’s definitely a range. I try not to be a psychologist. But i still need to read people. The more communication the better. Generally the more information I have, the better. So I like understanding, feeling what’s behind a song or band -’why’ they are doing things, not just the ‘what’. This helps me make the statement stronger

I do feel that being a producer has a bit in common with being a publicist -you synthesize a concept so the big picture comes through, and you think of a target audience -something I can’t help but do subconsciously.

Punk Globe: On the credits for The Dresden Dolls’ debut record you’re credited as “Memory Men”. According to my opinion, the result of your work became probably one of the most dynamical recordings of yours. Could you please tell me, a little bit about that album and your work on it ?

Martin: The credit was specifically that I used a Memory Man delay pedal on 2 songs – “Gravity”, and in the bridge of “Coin Operated Boy”. The band was pretty surprised by the weirdness that happened.

That record had me more as a classic producer -going through Amanda’s old home recordings on cassette to find songs that had been forgotten -like Bad Habit, making suggestions for overdubs, editing some songs to be shorter, even in the pre-production stage, guiding vocal performance and selecting takes.

I got to know the band pretty well before recording - going up to Boston to hang, so I think that really helped, including seeing their pretty goth-y and theatrical scene.

Punk Globe: After years of being producer you came to being an artist, playing live and releasing quite interesting albums. Following your own words, you never tried to be a musician. In what way the process of work on your material was different in comparison with your production work ? 

Martin: I always worked on my own material, even if it wasn’t released. I had a solo record in 1988 called Creole Mass. I am not very prolific, i still only write 3 or 4 songs a year. But there’s always something I’m needing to express. And it has kept me sane through the long projects for other people, to have my own stuff going at the same time. On my earlier material, it was not coming from being a good or decent player on any instrument, it was constructed in the studio, sometimes with a guest doing the actual playing -like Fred Frith and Lee Ranaldo on Creole Mass. I didn’t even attempt to learn how to play guitar till early 90’s

It’s true though that i wasn’t focused on live performance till relatively recently -2007.

Punk Globe: Once you said that nowadays you want to produce less. But when you finally get to the studio, recording a new album, don’t you feel a sort of nostalgia or there’s something else ?

Martin: The whole topic of “producing less” started around 2007, at the time when the record industry was collapsing, people weren’t so interested in albums as a format anymore, and musicians seemed happy just recording in their new home studios. I wondered if the golden era of recording had simply passed…But my attitude on this didn’t last. Vinyl came back, which showed an interest in the album and quality. And musicians in general realised there were limitations to just trying to record at home. So I’m almost back to my original interest in studio work, except that I’m live performing and touring more -a result of the previous crisis in the recording world. 

New LP by Martin Bisi would came out on November the 8th. Link:
 https://www.bronsonproduzioni.com/store/bronson-recordings/martin-bisi-solstice-red-vinyl-ltd-edition/

Check out Martin's recent release - BC35 Volume Two:
 https://bc35anniversary.bandcamp.com/album/bc35-volume-two-the-35-year-anniversary-of-bc-studio