Outside of full blown time travel machines, one of the best ways to revisit the past (and sometimes even glimpse the future) is listening to music. When you put on a favorite record, it can bring back images, memories, and feelings you haven't visited for years. For me, the Subhumans (the UK version and not the Canadian version) are one of those bands. They take me right back to 1985/1986. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat via email with Dick Lucas, the singer of the Subhumans (as well as Citizen Fish) who has been a constant source of inspiration for not only me, but countless other punk fans and musicians for the last 3 half decades or so.


So last night, my band (The Father Figures) opened for Gang of Four here in Phoenix. They are a huge influence for us (we're all 46 to 56 in age so we've been around the block long enough to get them). Anyway, it was cool getting to meet Andy Gill. Is there anyone out there who you'd like to share a bill with or get to have a conversation with face to face that you haven't had the chance to meet or play with over the years?

I've still not had more than a few seconds of conversation with Penny Rimbaud from Crass, which may happen one day, it feels a bit overdue -even if that's only cos people put crass and Subhumans in the same anarcho-punk bracket. I don't have anyone on an internal must-meet list, though: it's nice to meet people by chance.

On a similar note, what inspires you to keep the Subhumans going?

The inter reaction between crowd and music we play, the intensity of self-expression through music/singing, the traveling and meeting people...

I wrote a piece (for the Phoenix New Times) about underrated albums by classic bands and I added Worlds Apart to the list. I got a lot of response about that one. I feel like it is almost a sonic snapshot, if you will, of you guys throwing the door wide open and growing your sound. It was always my favorite record of yours and I'm curious, considering it has been out for 30 years now, what are your thoughts about Worlds Apart these days?

That album does have a great variety of rhythms and speeds, and has some of Bruce's most complex guitar based tunes on it. We all stretched ourselves with those songs. Most of the lyrics are still (unfortunately!) relevant too, so I don't think it sounds dated. To be honest it's hard to answer this question as I spend very little time analyzing our albums!


How has the expectations of your audience changed over the years from your perspective? For example, from your first trip to the US to now, has it changed at all in how you guys are received from town to town?

It hasn't really changed that much in some ways, the LA area crowds are always the most manic and numerous, and- I get stuck for generalizations about now! There's far fewer violent scenes at shows now than in the 80s, thank fuck, and maybe it's cos bands eventually attract the kind of people they deserve, but it seems there's more political awareness and less point scoring going on these days -and if that's a bit of wishful thinking, then all the more reason to keep pushing the buttons about equality and self-expression.





Maybe it is me, but it doesn't seem like there are many bands now who are truly outspoken about the world around them in a way that is as blunt as you have been (and I'm guessing, still very much are). Any thoughts on why that is or do you even agree? Maybe I'm not listening to the right bands.

Check out the bands Global Parasites and Autonomads, two UK bands who remain largely under the radar, as the old phrase has it, except now with YouTube the radar is omnipresent, given some pointers. Two examples of bands who are on top of the political machinations (in the UK especially), as well as knowing that the personal is the political. We play with a lot of bands whose lyrics aren't obvious but whose vocalised stance between songs makes their attitude clear- there's also a lot of bands who sing about next to nothing in terms of politics, and a lot of punks actively dislike 'serious' songs- so it goes, that's music for you, and you can't expect a mass of political awareness in an art form that is after all based on entertainment. However, punk rock is one of few genres to remain passionate about the messed up state of the world...and it will stay that way

I'm thinking it was 96 or 97 (it was actually 1998…memory issues) when you guys came back to the US as Subhumans for the first time in a long, long time. I was at the show you played here at the Nile Theater (which is where you guys are playing on 11/1) and I remember very distinctly you saying you guys would not be back again. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you are back again, selfishly, but I've always been curious as to why, at that moment you seemed to feel really strongly about it being a one-time thing for Subhumans to tour the US again?

I can only conjecture as to my state of mind at that point! It was the reformation trio of tours, UK Europe and usa , and we didn't plan to carry on after those at all. However the tours were so good, way beyond expectations, that it seemed daft not to!


You guys are a rare breed in terms of longevity and having the same lineup for over 30 years now. (32, correct?) How do you do it? Do you guys just really like each other or is the money too good to pass up?

Yes it's been the same four of us since 83, and, well, of course we like each other, but equally importantly we put up with each other! There can be bad moods or illness or excess drinking on tour and we take it as it comes, temporary blips in an otherwise relaxed journey. We were all crazier thirty years ago, I think any band that can semi-live with each other for say five years can carry on getting along for as long as they like.

What is your writing process like? Are you guys writing any new Subhumans stuff? The musician in me is curious if you guys were the type of band to get together and jam and see where it takes you or if you guys write(wrote) separately and brought fairly finished songs to the table when you get together to practice? I'd love to believe that most of Worlds Apart came from you guys just rocking out together in a dingy basement somewhere in your hometown.

Due to the geographic problem of drummer Trotsky (just Trotsky) living in Germany, 100s of miles away from the rest of us, we find it hard to get practices worked out, and we therefore have only a few semi formed songs on the go. Guitarist Bruce (Treasure) has most of the musical ideas and I have to work lyrics around them, or he had to twist the song structure to fit the prewritten song. Usually it's a now a mixture of both.

You guys started Bluurg before DIY was DIY. Why did you guys decide to take control of putting out your own cassettes at that time?

It was a cheap and easy way to get our music heard, with no contracts or limitations Self-releasing records was the next step, and more costly, which is where John Loder at Southern Studios stepped in - he'd helped Crass start their own label , and Flux of Pink Indians start theirs -Spiderleg Records , which put out the first Subhumans releases. So we carried on the DIY family tree with Bluurg moving from just cassettes to vinyl too.


What's the biggest misconception, even after all these years, about the Subhumans?

Some people think we're straightedge- til they meet us- !

Lastly, do you still harbor ill will towards Mickey Mouse?

Oh yes Mickey Mouse it's not against the mouse himself it's a song partly about the loss of the simple and innocent he represents, in humour, but also generally. Life is now emotionally complex as a result -perhaps- of so much analysis. Hell the song was a stream of consciousness in the first place and making solid sense of it can be a flexible mission!