I got the chance to speak with Duane Denison The guitarist and co-founder of The Jesus Lizard and Tomahawk. In the interview for anniversary Punk Globe, Duane told us about his DYI-roots and upcoming Tomahawk album, about playing with Hank Williams III, recording with Pigface and Revolting Cocks, writing songs. Enjoy!
Punk Globe: You just announced the release of new Tomahawk’ record. Tell us a little bit about the record ?
Duane: Well, it’s getting closer. Right now, Mike Patton is finishing up the vocals. Doing main vocals and vocal overdubs. And little keyboard-samples here and there. So musically it’s all pretty much set. All the instruments have been tracked. I wrote and co-wrote the tracks. I come up with the parts, guitar-riffs and parts, the arrangements. All that. Then we kind of hash it up together. It’s getting close. I don’t think it would come up this year. I think it would be early next year. I don’t know exactly when.
Punk Globe: You previous “Oddfellows” was released in 2013. Stylistically, it’s different. Starting with nearly punk-song - “Stone Letter” and finishing with bluesy-jazzy “Rise Up Dirty Waters”. Being a guitarist and working on arrangements, was it hard for you to keep it interesting ?
Duane: At that point, we’ve been doing it for quite a while. It’s hard as one the one hand, you don’t want to repeat yourself too much. Because, obviously it’s boring or redundant. On the other hand, you have repeat yourself because, that’s how you define your style. By this time, I hope I know what I’m good at what I’m not good at. I’m still trying new things. At this point, I tried to come up with the things that’re still challenging. And that the other guys would find interesting and exciting and would love to work at. I always try things that make everyone sound good. And not just myself.
Punk Globe: Among the guitarist that inspired you areJohn John McGeoch and Andy Gill. But was there any guitar riff\riffs you heard that made you pick up guitar ?
Duane: Yeah. Going all the way back to when I was a kid, there was always bits and pieces of things made me want to play guitar. Everything from…That could be The Rolling Stones or David Bowie or T.Rex, Mott The Hoople – glam like that. Or it can be a prog-rock – that also was going on when I was a teenager. Like Yes and Genesis, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Gentle Giant and things like that. That was a very challenging when I was young! Very hard to play that stuff. It’s still is! Between glam and prog and then – the post-punk that kind of what I do on the electric-guitar, I think…
Punk Globe: When you started playing with The Jesus Lizard, was it hard for you to unite these different influences of yours into one form of your well-known guitar-sound ?
Duane: Em…I don’t think so! I didn’t even consciously think about it. I was just trying to come with the things the other guys would like – David Yow, David Wm.Sims and Mac McNeilly. I knew them when they were in Scratch Acid. And it was a part of Texas underground scene. I was living there too. So I kind of knew what was in the air at that time. And what we all like. Whether it’s Scratch Acid, Butthole Surfers and other American stuff that was around that time – Sonic Youth or Black Flag. And going then before them – Led Zeppelin and The Birthday Party. So we all liked bits and pieces of a lot of the same things. I felt as long as I stay true to that, everything would be ok.
Punk Globe: Recently, you reunited for a short New Years’ tour – how different were your performances in 2020 in comparison with the 90’s ?
Duane: Right now, no one really knows when everything’s going back to normal. Especially in the States and in particular in Southern states where I am, people thought they had quarantine, everyone would stay hope for a couple of mounts and it seems we had it under control. Then, people started going back out, being a little careless. And the next thing – we had the numbers going back up. People are in the hospitals now. So it’s gonna push things back. Right now, what I’m doing is mostly just writing and recording and working on a new material. That’s mostly what I do. But yeah, we love to play and anything we write and record – it’s with the intension of performing live. I think with anything I do, I visualize performing live on stage somewhere. So who knows ? I don’t think there’s anyone who can say. I’d like to think that after a year or so shows will be happening again. But whether the capacity would be the same…I’m not sure, I don’t know! Would we have these big shows where thousands of people would get together ?
Punk Globe: What defines the musical style, that you’re going to explore with each record of yours ?
Duane: I try to listen to new things all the time. Anything you listen to sort of influences you. A little bit. Want you it or not. A lot of what I listen to now, isn’t very much rock-music…I listen to a lot of “modern composers”. Morton Feldman and John Cage. Even minimalists like Louis Andriessen or John Addams. I listen to a lot of orchestral and chamber music. And soundtracks. Even bits of jazz and rhythm and blues. And that stuff soft of goes into my sub-conscious. And maybe, goes out of my fingers later. Whatever I listen to new things it all kind of creeps in, somehow.
Punk Globe: Tomahawk were formed when each of the members who are already established themselves as well-known musicians There are lots of musical styles that each of you brought into the band…
Duane: With Tomahawk, I didn’t want to continue The Jesus Lizard-type-of-guitar-playing. And I don’t think it’s the same. It’s kind of different. There are elements with a certain signature. But it’s definitely more of a hard-rock. A little more technical…And I thought, that suited the music and the people I was playing with. It’s not totally different from what I’ve done in the past. But, it’s a little different. Want you or now – it’s a progression. It’s not for me to sit. So yeah, I was trying to re-define myself. The Jesus Lizard had broken up. And I moved to Nashville. And I played briefly with Hank Williams III. Then started over with something new and original. That’s kind of worked out when Tomahawk started happening.
Punk Globe: To me, your records can be compared to containing a concentration of enormous energy. What do you remember your first shows ?
Duane: Oh, that’s a good question! It took some getting used to. Because, up till then with The Jesus Lizard, I played pretty much with the same guys for almost 10 years straight. And then we stopped first time. With Hank Williams III, I played with the same people for…Almost two years straight. And then with Tomahawk, we’ve been playing fairly big shows right away with people I’ve never played with. And we got get it together fast. So, it felt quite different. And it took a while to define its equilibrium. Because we all lived in different cities, we only get together to rehearse and record. It seemed every time we have had to get together, we will have to go through this period of becoming accustoms to each other again. Every time we play out – there’s always been some time off between it. And it always taking a little bit for you to get back on your feet. But we do! And yeah, it feels quite different.
Punk Globe: When you usually work on a song, do you follow a certain concept, to express your feelings or it’s all about jamming and finding something that would resonate with you ?
Duane: No, it’s more typically…I would come up with a riff or chord progression or sequence. And then I would try to come up with contrasting section. Then – put it together. Read it like that – just make a basic sketch. First I would typically make a demo or rough simple recording and run it past Patton. And see what he thought of it. If you he likes it or not and how much. I usually sent several at a time and ask: What do you think about these ? – and take it from there. And then – develop them from there. Most of it did not come from jamming, I would say.
Punk Globe: While working on the“Anonymous” record, you made alot of research of the music of Native Americans. Tell us more ?
Duane: That came about…A few years before that, when I have played with Hank Williams III, that was country-honky-tonk-cowpunk-band. And a lot of times in United States, some of the gigs for that kind of music take place on Indians reservations, Native Americans’ reservations. And we played some of them. We even played at Native Americans music awards. Because, I think, Hank Williams the senior had some native blood. I started seeing and hearing native bands around that time. This was around 1999. And I thought it was interesting. There were other things I wanted to hear – I was sort of surprised that it didn’t sound nearly what I figured traditionally. Like what I figured would it sound like – a lot of those bands just sounded like a blues-rock or southern-rock. That kind of things. I thought: “There must be something out there!” – I was browsing bookstore that carried old books. I looking though the music section I came across a book collected by a woman named Natalie Curtis who had the grant from president. So, she went around to different tribes – at the south-west, all over the united states. [She] collected folk-songs and wrote them out. She didn’t get peoples’ individual names. These were…folk-songs that had been handed down by generations of people. There was no one author credited. Anonymous. Like when you record a folk-song and it’s in public domain. And it’s arranged by whoever recorded it. I was amazed when I found this book! I was looking at it! I read music pretty well and could see – this was the way different! And is gonna sound the way different that the contemporary bands I had heard were doing, when I was on tour. I thought: “I got to work with this!” – I did! I set though, I picked though some of them I thought would be the most interesting. And once again – made some rough demos and sent it to Mike saying: “Mike, this is very unusual! And it might be a cool thing for Tomahawk to do! What do you think ?!” and he was like: “Yes, this is great! We can do something really weird and unusual! Yeah, let’s do it!” – so we did! And that was not our biggest selling album. That was not very successful commercially. But artistically, it’s cool. And I was happy…I did an interview at one point with fellow from tribal newspaper, Ojibwe newspaper, that I believe in New York. Who really liked the album and was very curious about it.
Punk Globe: During your career you’ve worked with lots of musicians. And speaking about two of them – Revolting Cocks and Pigface, I’ve always been thinking that as members of The Jesus Lizard you’ve been feeling each other very good, feeling the dynamics of each other very good. How different were these two for you ?
Duane: Oh, very different! Pigface…back[then] was Martin Atkins, the drummer. He would just set up his usual grooves, patterns and play. And get people to come in and sit it. And see what happens. So, Martin and I just played together for a few hours one day. And he just recorded everything. And then went back, edited and added these or that things. Revolting Cocks was different – the basic rhythm tracks were recorded. And I just overdubbed a few things. I knew Al and Paul before that. So it wasn’t that unusual. Being at Chicago, you see people, you get to know people…It is what it is. It’s one of the things that I’ve heard later and thought about: “Oh, I wish I could go back and change some things!” – it felt like I could have done different things better. But I always think so.
Punk Globe: But in terms of the recording process these days – when everything can be done digitally. Do you miss that kind of interaction that was typical of the back-in-the-days ?
Duane: Nowadays – yeah. And what you say is true. I’m working on new stuff some people. I can’t say anything more than that about it right now. But everyone just does home demos. Obviously with the pandemic people can’t really travel and get together. New media really helps! It’s nice to be able to send files though the internet! Send me something, so I could download it into my system, add parts and send back something so they could listen to it. That’s very handy. With The Jesus Lizard, when we started, a lot of this stuff…Someone would come up with the basic idea. Then we all get together and work it out together. If fact – we all lived together! We all lived at the same house! And we played together. And would go on tour together. First three or four years we were on top of each other. Almost everyday! I don’t miss that ( laughs )! I miss getting together with the guys more often. But everyday…not at this point of my life.
Punk Globe: Being in a band, your need to know your colleagues on personal level and as musicians. After all these years has it became easier for you?
Duane: Well, I think what happens with people generally, when you get older. On the one hand – when I get together with The Jesus Lizard guys, it’s usually very comfortable. We’ve known each other for a long time. We’ve played together. We started off with nothing. We wrote some stuff together. And made it happen together. So it’s always enjoyable and comfortable. But at the same time, people go apart every time. You go into different directions. Not just musically. But personally. We all live in different parts of the country. We all have different families and other outside interests. Jobs and whatever. So, you can’t help but, in some ways, become more different for each other. But to me – it’s natural. It’s normal and it’s a part of what it makes me interesting. That you can always work pass that. We still seem to like a lot of the same things. We talk to each other fairly regularly. We always know with each other’s’ projects and what’s going on. And we talk about things we’re listening to. Movies we’ve seen. This or that. Books we’ve read. We all still seem to like most of the same things. And we all seem to dislike most of the same things. Which is in some ways even more important.
Punk Globe: What memories you have about beginning of your career with all this DIY-esthetics and all the underground shows you that you played ?
Duane: Back them, the system wasn’t as fully developed as it had become. So, the DIY-thing was the only way to go for a band like us. For a band that wasn’t terribly commercial. Not just in a pop-sense. It was hard to define us – it wasn’t a very typical punk-rock, it wasn’t typical metal or anything else. We had to do everything for ourselves. One person was helping us at the beginning was booking shows – we had a booking agent. His company was also just starting up. As we were. And a small record-company – Touch And Go Records. We didn’t just write the songs. When we toured it was just four of us in a van for years. We had to do everything ourselves. Internet didn’t exist. Cell-phones didn’t exist. You were kind of out there – like a ship in the ocean. And if you need to call someone – you needed to pull off, pay off and call your agent or call home. And see what’s up. A lot of those places we played – we didn’t know what it would be like before we got there. Especially going to West Coast and Western Canada for the first time. You didn’t know exactly what some of these places is gonna be. Would it be a sports-bar or a biker bar or a gay bar. You didn’t know! That was unusual! We did everything ourselves. We hold our own gear. We didn’t have a crew. We didn’t have anything. We just did it all ourselves. Eventually, when we started making money, we could afford bringing people with us. Sound-person, someone to sell merch. We could afford motel-rooms. Just cheap motel rooms. Two people in a room – that was a big step! And a lot of themes, I see the young bands for whom it’s easier now. Those things are accepted. That’s normal to them at the beginning. Especially bands…who already have a bus on their first tour, already have a crew. And all this. And I think: “Oh, you guys don’t know what its like! You don’t know what it’s like to really work your way out of nothing!” So there’s that! And…the big festivals didn’t exist in America. They slowly did over time. And we took advantage of them. It’s wasn’t quite as bigger business. And we all came from that scene – independent labels, independent booking, clubs, driving in a van, staying in cheap motels. We learnt to do things ourselves. And I think, it’s payed off. Because, we could get by almost any situation. Anywhere you put us in, any type of club – we knew what to do. We knew how to handle ourselves. And we still do ( laughs )!
Punk Globe: As a musician you have tried lots of musical styles. The Jesus Lizard, Tomahawk, The Legendary Shack Shakers, Denison\Kimball Trio. What is next ?
Duane: Em…I’m not exactly sure…I can’t tell you exactly yet. Cause I don’t want to give it away and I don’t want to say something that’s not true or whatever. I’m always writing something. I always write some new things. I always document them as I go. Just simple recordings. Save them. And I can modify them later- depending on what situation. So right now, I’m just waiting for Tomahawk album to get finished and then we’ll see what’s gonna happen with that. After that -I don’t know. I obviously don’t know exactly. But there’s always something! There’s always something around the corner.
