Craig Lewis came to Baltimore this past June. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to hear him speak. When he Facebook messaged everyone who had RSVP'd to the event to talk about his new book, I jumped at the chance to interview him. People in the punk scene need to be open about trauma. My own recovery process has delayed the publication of this interview, but it's so worthwhile to finally see this baby online. I hope you all enjoy the read.

Hey Craig, thanks for doing this interview. Please tell us a bit about yourself and your book, Better Days.

My name is Craig Lewis, I'm forty years old. I live in Boston, Massachusetts. I am a person with lived experience with mental health conditions. I spent the vast majority of my life mentally unhealthy, living a very dysfunctional and dissatisfying life. I spent many years receiving subpar services in the mental health system. My family did not do a very good job in supporting me and helping me get well. Ultimately, after hitting rock bottom in front of many, many people who I knew in the punk rock community in 2004 and really outing myself as an unstable person in ways that went beyond the general consensus of how unhealthy I was, I tried to figure out if I wanted to live or die. I asked myself, "Do I want to pick up and try again or do I just not want to be alive." I took a step and moved to a different part of Boston, where I found a wonderful therapist in Boston. I met with her religiously every week for many years. I found a psychiatrist who would work with me to get my medications figured out and get me treated for the problems I had and not the ones that I didn't have. I went through this process called recovery, which is a long journey filled with lots of ups and downs. I learned coping skills and new ways to manage my relationships and interactions. Over the course of time, I went to school and did an internship. As part of that internship, I was required to leave something behind at the program I was interning at. I decided that I would start up a psycho-educational support group. I have personal, lived experience. I'm open and out about it, it's not a secret. With a curriculum that I'd prepared, I would lead a group of 5 to 10 people who all identified as having a mental health issue of some sort. I finished my internship and had a volunteer position for two years in a recovery community in Boston. I led the group every Thursday for about two years. The whole time, I'd been generating curriculum with the intention of benefiting the people I was working with. It wasn't until years after that I realized I had this body of work could be transformed into a book that people could potentially want to buy. I spent the last year editing it with the help of an editor and working on the cover with a local artist. It's out now and it seems like people are excited about it. I'm also having a great time with it and I'm excited as well!

What made you want to start taking the workshops on the road?

I had an opportunity in January of 2012 where, quite interestingly, there were these vegan potlucks going on at a community space in Boston and they had a speaker named Chris Pittman, a guy who I've known for a long time, who is an expert on aliens. He's been on The History Channel and he gave a presentation to the people at the potluck about aliens. I heard about it and went to one of the potlucks. I went to the people who were hosting the potluck and asked if I could do a talk about punk rock, mental illness, and recovery. They said yes and five days later, I gave a presentation. My first time doing it was sloppy, but since then, I've been to New York, DC, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Canada. I'm having a great time going and meeting people because there are so many people in the punk rock community who struggle with their mental health, trauma, and addictions who aren't getting really helpful support. Our community supports dysfunction and nurtures drinking to solve our problems. That didn't work for me and it doesn't work for a lot of people. I thought it was really important to tell my story, so that's what I do and I plan to continue touring, traveling, and telling my story, hopefully all over the world, and spreading a message of hope that people can and do get control of some of these issues and live lives filled with meaning and purpose and be happy, healthy, and well.

What's the most rewarding thing that someone has said to you after one of those talks?

When I was in Toronto, my friend and mentor was with me. I met somebody as a result of the talks being advertised online. He was a recent immigrant to Toronto and we chatted back and forth, he helped flier the event. At the event, I spoke for fifty minutes and there was a long line of people waiting to talk to me. He came up to me with his girlfriend and said, "We'd like to talk to you afterwards." After we were all packed up, my friend and I went outside to meet this person and his girlfriend. We went to a restaurant and ended up talking for about two and a half hours about dealing with trauma and the probability of getting well. We talked to them about substance abuse, coping skills, how to get their needs met, and how to manage the issues that we have in order to live a healthy life. That conversation was one of the most meaningful conversations that I've had in my entire life. I treasure it to this day and I'm grateful not only that I was able to go to Canada and speak, but also that I was able to meet a couple of wonderful people who were desperate for someone to understand, support, and be honest with them. That's exactly what my travel partner and I were able to do. It was a wonderful experience and it felt incredible, even as we drove twelve straight hours home.

What do you think punks can do to support each other that doesn't involve alcohol or drugs?

We can become informed. If you have a friend who's struggling, you can encourage them to get help. Help can come in whatever form is right for that person. Maybe it's getting on medication, maybe it's going to a support group, or seeing a therapist. As a friend of somebody in the punk scene who's going through to these difficult times, we can become as informed as possible. We can help them figure out what their options are. You can go to this place, you can try this person, this is a place where you can get acupuncture, this is a place where you can get peer support. Be supportive and not judgmental. We can refrain from putting our morals and values on that person's need for help and desire to get well. In other words, whatever we think about the mental health system, or this treatment, or this method of getting your needs met, let's just help the person be as informed as possible about the decisions they make. A lot of people say that the pharmaceutical industry is making money off of people with mental illnesses. That is true, however, sometimes those medications do help some people and we need to make sure that when we're supporting our friends in the punk scene who are going through difficult times, that we empower them to make decisions based on what their needs are instead of imposing our views on them. What might work for us and what we believe to be true might be different for them. If we care about our friends, we'll encourage them to make the best decisions for them

Early on in the punk scene when mental health wasn't really thought of or talked about widely, was there anything that could have saved people like GG Allin and Darby Crash?

It's a societal issue. In the 70's and 80's, and even into the 90's, these issues weren't talked about much. Throughout the history of the punk scene, there's been a lot of emphasis on this attitude of "no future, just get fucked up, party, live a reckless, careless life," and that's been a nurtured behavior for a very long time. Countless amounts of people have fallen victim to that. In my opinion, there's a place for being wild and having all sorts of fun and causing all sorts of chaos. I'm not saying that shouldn't happen from time to time, I'm saying that, to answer your question, is there something that could've helped these people? Maybe. Support, understanding, compassion, empathy, could have all helped, but some of these people may have had lives that were so painful, they may have come from homes that were so traumatizing, parents that didn't get it or support them. In that day and time, the mental health system was not about recovery, it was about containment. If somebody had difficulties and they were forced to see a psychiatrist, they might lock them up or put them on medications that weren't nearly as effective as they are now. For some people, that reaction of "No future, no hope," is a reasonable response to an unreasonable world. Some of those people may have benefited from peer support and information about recovery and some of them may not have. In 2013, there are still people who get beaten down in the same ways, who might be able to access and be benefited by recovery and wellness. Mental health is now a more common topic in the media, but there going to be people who aren't going to be able to get on board. Ultimately, those people could end up either in jail or dead. That's the unfortunate reality. I'm hoping that more people will be able to get the help that they need on their own terms.

Historically, there's been a pathologizing of radical politics that uses the mental health system to suppress people who advocate for social change. In the ‘60s and ‘70s, there were a lot of young black kids in the U.S. misdiagnosed with schizophrenia for expressing anti-racist ideas. There are people who might read up on that history and be leery of mental health treatment, so what would you say to them?

You're absolutely right that mental health treatment, especially years ago, was used to silence people who were politically active, or dissidents, or speaking out against the status quo. That was a common practice as far I know for people who spoke out against the government in many countries including the United States. When I was 14 years old in 1988, I was put in a mental hospital and diagnosed with schizophrenia. I was put on medication for years and I never had schizophrenia. After that, I was put on medication for bipolar disorder for twenty years and I never had bipolar disorder. So, I was put on medications in an attempt to help me, but what it really did was make me sick. I come from a personal, lived experience of being victimized by that reality. For me, I'm now getting the effective assistance that I need to be well. That includes going to a therapist and taking some medication, mostly to manage the degree of trauma that I've developed after a lifetime of being improperly medicated and all the things that have happened as a result. Through getting engaged and getting help, I've learned about acupuncture, meditation, and how crucial exercise is to being well. What you're saying happens, it happened to me, but I've been able to reconcile with it and find a way to be well. My way of doing that is to take that information and share it with others so they can also find a way that things can get better.

You mentioned meditation and there's a Buddhist author named Brad Warner who plays bass in the Cleveland punk band Zero Defex. Are you aware of his books? What do you think of them?

I didn't know who he was and I just looked him up right now, so it looks awesome. It looks like he's really trying to make a difference, sharing from his lived experience and doing his part to benefit society. I've got to look into him more, but thanks to you, I've heard of him. I'm really grateful for this information. Thank you!

My therapist, who's helping me work through a lot of my trauma, was the bass player in Apocalypse Theater for a while. So, what would you say to people in the punk scene who want to become mental health professionals?

Well, I'm not a mental health professional. I'm an experiential health professional; I work from my lived experience of having a mental health condition, trauma, and substance use. I have been in what we call recovery since the late 2000's. Recovery is a journey that has lots of ups and downs where we learn how to manage our lives and what we face on a daily basis so that we can have relative peace while realizing that we have tough days and better days. As a person from the punk scene who was very openly mentally ill who said and did a lot of messed up things and hurt people and damaged my own life as a result, I never thought that I could get well or that the punk scene would support me in that. While I have to go through a very difficult process of changing the conversation about Craig Lewis, who he is, and what he's doing, I've had quite a bit of success in re framing how people view me, my name, and my reputation as a person who is a healer and someone who's giving back to the community. Any punk rocker who's gone through something similar certainly has some lived experience that would benefit others. I strongly encourage any punk rocker who's gone through the system to consider that as anti-authoritarians, people who are passionate about music, and often passionate about politics, we have a wonderful opportunity to be in a position of really affecting change. Coming from a community that's know for its dysfunction, yet there are so many people who simply want to be well. So, if you can have a conversation with a punk rocker who gets it, and understands how it fits into their story, they can convey a very powerful message that one of our own is learning how to manage their challenges and doing so successfully. It's vital that people, if they want to make a change in the world, and they feel that they can confidently learn effective communication skills, enter the field of their choice. It's a wonderful field to get into and I support it very much.

Has there been anyone who you've hurt in the past who has come back to you and told you that they really appreciate what you're doing now?

Oh my, that's a wonderful question! Absolutely, yes! I had no idea that this would have such an impact on so many people. I just considered that I was doing my thing and I didn't think that this many people would listen when I started being open and honest about my story. I've hurt people in ways that are unforgivable and the fact that people have opened their hearts to me and embraced me as a changed person is one of the most beautiful things in the entire world. So many people have said, "I'm so proud of you, you're doing amazing work. Thank you for doing what you're doing; you've come a long way." Nowadays, people contact me for guidance and peer support who ten or fifteen years ago considered me "crazy," and an absolute walking disaster. It's a profoundly positive and humbling experience, and it's ongoing.

Do you have a song that makes you feel safer when something triggers your PTSD? When I get triggered, I put on Black Flag and feel a lot better.

It's awesome that we have these outlets to help us manage the very extreme painful moments that we have. That's the beautiful thing about music. I'm glad you brought that up! There is a band that I listen to that not many people may know. They're from Luxembourg; they were around in the late 90's and the 2000's. In 2002, I herniated a disc in my back. I was debilitated, I wasn't functioning at all, and my mental health was deteriorating. I got a tape in the mail from a pen pal in Mexico, which was a discography of this band called Petrograd. I played that tape over, and over, and over again countless times. Something about the music and the words kept me alive. To this day, I credit that cassette with saving my life. I have it on my iPod and whenever I have a struggle, I go right to that band. Every single time, it helps me deal. I am so grateful. I've thanked the label who put out that tape and I've written to the band. The letter got returned, but I did send them a message, so they know how much their music has meant to me. There's another band from Montreal called Ballast and they had a song on the tape that I got called, "Resign Yourself," which was also vital as I began to get well. I related to the lyrics. I felt like they empowered me. I've been able to thank several members of that band personally for helping me. When I was speaking in Montreal this past April, several of those band members came to the talk. Unfortunately, I neglected to thank them while I was speaking. If I'm in Montreal again, I'm definitely going to acknowledge them publicly because that band and that song has been incredibly healing for me.

Would you do a tour with Ballast where you gave a talk and then they played a set?

A lot of people ask me about that. I feel like when people want to go to a show, they want to hear live music and they don't really want to sit and be quiet for an hour. I try to keep the workshops and the presentations as separate events. I'd really like to be asked to come to festivals where they have workshops in the day time and music at night. I would love to have opportunities where I could speak and tell my story, and then see the bands play and hang out. But I think that having a show and a talk one after the other because, like I was saying, people don't want to sit and be quiet in between music that makes them jump up and down and go wild.

Most people chalk violence at shows up to booze, cops, or the occasional Nazi, but how much of that do you think has to do with untreated mental health issues?

I have to say first that if someone's a racist, they have some sort of issues which contribute to that thinking. As far as the behavior of people at concerts, we are in a community of people with all sorts of issues. In a lot of ways, we're drawn to the punk scene because it's sort of a safe haven for people with problems. If you get us at a space where there are no bouncers and people are drinking, there's a high potential for things to get out of hand. What's really important is how we deal with those issues and how we work with the people who might be causing those issues in such a way that there's mutual respect. How we communicate the rules and boundaries of a space before a show is essential to ensuring that it's a positive experience for everyone.

What's a good example of effectively communicating guidelines for safety?

I think a lot of people who may create a difficult environment are doing so because they might feel alienated, alone, or insecure. For them, coming to a show and causing an issue is a hundred times safer than being at home where their parents or partners might be hitting them, or some other unsafe situation. Everyone has a history, even if you don't know the details. If we can start to not pass judgment on people who behave in a way that's contrary to what we think is right and help them understand the repercussions of what they do so that they don't feel like they're being ganged up on and told what to do, we'll all be better off. Reckless behavior is something that I want to stay away from and I hope that if we're in situations where that stuff happens that we're able to convey our needs without forcing someone out. When we publicly reprimand people, they might react in ways that don't benefit anyone. As a person with substance and mental health issues, the way that someone treats me is vital to how I respond.

I did an interview with Brandon Cruz of Dr. Know where he was talking about recovery, but it got lost. How open would you be to working with Brandon and other people in well-known punk bands in talking about recovery?

I love Dr. Know! I have all of their records and I love the songs that he sings on. I'm so glad to know that he's involved with that, we need everyone we can get to fight this battle and create meaningful, lasting social change. I'd absolutely love to work with him and I'm trying to get out to California this coming year to give some talks and sign some books for Better Days and the other book I have coming out soon called You're Crazy and have some wonderful communication with interesting and worthwhile people. I'm not an idol-worshiper when it comes to punk rock. I don't think that just because someone was in this band or put out that record that I have to treat them any differently than I'd treat some fourteen year old kid who was at his first show. If you want to work together on making things better for our community, I want to work with you. If that person comes with a history where they might get more attention because of their notoriety, great, but what's most important to me is that they're ready to work. I like partnering with people. I embrace anyone who wants to do that kind of work, whether it's someone I've never heard of or the lead singer of one of my favorite bands of all time.

What was the hardest thing to translate from the workshops to the Better Days workbook?

Punk Rock, Mental Illness, and Recovery is a separate, yet connected, presentation. When I give those presentations, I'm telling the story of where I come from, what I went through, and how I got well. Better Days tells part of that story, but it's more like a professional mental health workbook written by a punk rocker. One topic is called "Biting Your Tongue," in it, I talk about difficult experiences I've had in my life where I insulted people and caused conflict. I'm suffering, the person I'm interacting with is suffering, and the person who I'm interacting with may have already been suffering and lashed out at me because I was there, not because I did anything to hurt them. When I react to them, I perpetuate their suffering and I bring more of it into my life. In the book, I have a worksheet where the reader can name a situation where they got into it with somebody and it ended badly. How can we do that differently in the future so we have a better result? The workbook's all about helping people make cognitive adjustments so that they can have more peace in their lives.

Tell me more about You're Crazy, the other book you're working on.

It's an anthology that I'm compiling. So far, the first volume's going to have twenty-seven firsthand accounts of people from the punk scene who struggle with their mental health. That book really ties into the Punk Rock, Mental Illness, and Recovery talks because it's really people telling their stories. I've got writers from all over the country and even some people from Holland, the UK, and other places in Europe. That book's going to have subsequent volumes, so once we get the first volume out this winter, we're going to start on a second volume and hopefully a third, fourth, and fifth. As long as people want to tell their stories, I'll go through the process of getting to print and getting it out so people can access it.

Do you think that anybody who's been through trauma and has no connection to punk rock at all would benefit from your books and talks?

Absolutely! When I've spoken, I've met psychiatrists, social workers, mental health counselors, addiction counselors, and all sorts of people. Punk rock is about 20% of the story for me, but because I come from that world and I know that so many people in it are hurting so much, I make it a focus of my work. Anybody who has any desire to talk or hear about mental health recovery might benefit from what I'm saying. When I was in Ottawa, there were many people who were much older and not in the punk scene who'd been psychiatric survivors who came out to hear me speak. Better Days is for anybody, whether they're into punk rock or not. You're Crazy is geared toward people in the punk scene, but also to their families. Most social workers, therapists, and psychiatrists have had a punk rocker in or out of their office at some point, so this is a way to understand people from a different background and what they're going through. This book is the honest and hard truth. There's really no candy-coating. This is what the people went through and some of them are still very much struggling. Having a collection of stories will not only benefit all of the writers because they'll be empowered by having their work published, but all the people they've never met who've been through something similar and can identify with them. Whether we're in the punk scene or not, we all know what it feels like to suffer, we all know what it feels like to go through trauma, we all know what it feels like to be abandoned, abused, and alienated. Those feelings are universal. I feel like You're Crazy is going to be received well by many communities, I'm really eager to see what happens. I hope that some of the writers will be able to start speaking in their own communities.

What's one thing you want people to take from your work?

That we get better. With hard work and dedication, things can improve. My degree of success is not to be compared with yours and yours is not to be compared with someone else's. Our successes are personal, our successes are legitimate. Our experiences are terrible and hard and painful as we feel they are. We don't compare. We celebrate successes, we provide support in non-judgmental ways, and we allow people to be who they are. We let people save face if they make a mistake, we let people take responsibility and move on, we don't hold things against them, we allow our difficult experiences to be valuable and necessary learning experiences. I want to celebrate anybody who's going through any of this because we ultimately have to be there for each other. I want to facilitate that process of getting well so that we can have radical change in our lives and the lives of anyone around us. We've been through hell and we deserve to get better and I want to see that happen.

WWW.BETTERDAYSRECOVERY.COM
WWW.PUNKSINRECOVERY.COM