Please enjoy Donna Destri's fabulous interview of Ann Magnuson

Ann Magnuson has been described by The New York Times as having more characters at her fingertips than Lily Tomlin. Though this description is certainly spot on about her range as an actor, I’ve always thought of Ann as more of a New Wave Shirley MacLaine, as she possesses the same type of gamine beauty. Men want her and despite that, women actually like her. Moreover, like Shirley MacLaine, Ann can do it all. She is a consummate actress, singer, songwriter, writer, and performance artist---a true Renaissance woman if you will.  Upon her arrival in New York’s East Village in the late 70’s, Ann quickly became instrumental in creating what was and is forever thought of as a “Golden Age” in New York. Here she talks about her many roles, then and now, and how she has continued to let her “Jungian Freak Flag” fly in the face of convention. These days Ann is celebrating the digital re-release of her album “Pretty Songs and Ugly Stories.” Ann’s collaboration with genius/musician/writer/ Kristian Hoffman is sure to win accolades and we will be celebrating right along with her.   

Punk Globe: I understand that this album, “Pretty Songs and Ugly Stories” is actually a re-release. What prompted you to release it now?

Ann: The album wasn’t available as a digital download and I thought it was long overdue to enter the 21st century. We recorded it in 2005-2006 and I self-released it in late 2006 to coincide with a live performance at REDCAT here in LA. Around that time my mother unexpectedly died and so I wasn’t in any shape to promote it. I barely got through the live show. Fortunately, I sent the CD to my friend Mitzi Johnson in San Francisco who owned ASPHODEL records and she loved it! She totally understood it as a journey of recovery – of freeing oneself from the ‘ugly’ negativity of unhealthy relationships, repetition compulsion, and cynicism and moving into the ‘prettier’ realm where you let go of your old patterns, make healthier choices and adopt a more optimistic mindset.

 ASOPHODEL formally released the CD in early 2007. We did some live shows in LA and NYC but other events interfered – as well as acting jobs came- and I wasn’t able to properly tour with it. Years later Mitzi closed the label and gave all the masters back to her artists! She is truly an amazing woman. Can you imagine any record company doing that? I want to eventually get all my past projects digitized and available online and onto people’s playlists! 

~Your collaborator on this project is none other than Kristian Hoffman who I’ve always thought of as the Cole Porter of the New Wave. Where and when did you meet Kristian and how did you two come to work together on music?  

Ann: He absolutely is the Cole Porter of the New Wave! We met when we were both involved in the New Wave Vaudeville show in 1978 – which you were also part of! We became instant friends and of course I became an instant fan and admirer. I remember seeing him in the Swinging Madisons and thinking “I’ve got to work with this guy! He’s brilliant!”

Punk Globe: When you write songs, do you often have a sense of the melody initially or do the lyrics come first?

Ann: There is never a set formula. Sometimes the lyrics are first. They often are. But sometimes it all pops into my head and out of my mouth as music with words. The more “folksy” stuff certainly does.  I keep a dream journal and write poems and phrases down all the time. Those eventually become lyrics or spoken word pieces. Sometimes I will make up a song on the guitar with the chords first – often incorporating lyrics along the way. Kristian is such a brilliant songwriter and on Pretty Songs we worked in a variety of different ways. Most of the time he sent me music or demos of pieces he’d been working on. I starting mixing and matching certain pieces to textual concepts. As with all my musical and theatrical projects, I start with an outline of what I want to say thematically. So I was very clear about what kind of vibe I wanted – pretty and very melodic. Usually I would write the lyrics but sometimes Kristian would or he would refashion my notes to him (about what I wanted the song to convey and sample ideas) into the finished lyrics. We did a lot of tinkering back and forth but mostly all the music is his. I wrote I Met an Astronaut all by my lonesome and I had several spoken word pieces already written. Again, I had specific ideas of what I wanted to sing about and what I wanted the content to be. Often I already had the song titles. It was like writing a play. 

Punk Globe: I’m so taken with your ethereal and lilting Soprano on this record. When did you first find your voice? Tell us about your early musical endeavors such as Pulsallama, Bong Water, and Vulcan Death Grip. Incidentally, Fred (B52) Schneider once told me that Pulsallama was his favorite NY group.

Ann: Thanks for the compliment! I guess you could say I found my voice early on in grade school music class-- “A Froggy Went a-Courtin’” being my first memory of belting it out in second grade. Around the same time, I auditioned for the local community theater production of “The Music Man”!  A group of us neighborhood kids all took singing lessons to prepare for the audition. I was the only one who got picked out of our group (and I am just now realizing that is probably why I stopped having play dates with my friend Betsy afterwards.) I did a lot of plays and musical theater growing up and majored in Theater and Cinema in college (where I also took voice and piano lessons.) I’ve always had music in my life. Then, after my fantasy love affair with Herb Alpert, I got deeply into Motown and Rock ‘n Roll, then Singer/Songwriters, then Art Rock, then Punk Rock–and of course Patti Smith showed us all what new heights could be achieved as a woman and poet in music! Once I got to New York I made a beeline to CBGB and Max’s to find the kindred spirits. (That was in early 1978, after spending my junior year abroad studying theater and film in London in 1976-77 where I watched the British Punk Movement explode. That was, as you can imagine, very inspiring!)

 I initially wanted to be a director and stay behind the scenes but soon fell back into performing. I sang in a lot of one-night “concept” bands at Club 57 (where I was the manager for a while.) Pulsallama came out of the Ladies Auxiliary of the Lower East Side, a group of downtown gals who threw concept events at the club. We planned a Rites of Spring Bacchanal there and needed a band. Dany Johnson (renowned DJ and currently a member of the NYC all women Brazilian drum line Fogo Azul) and I were inspired after seeing the Bush Tetras and wanted to create an “all-girl percussive orchestra”. It was also a bit of a parody of Bow Wow Wow and that whole ‘tribal’ thing the Brits were up to around 1981. I made up the name with my West Virginia pal Jackson Morton who was visiting from DC at the time. “Pulse” was one of the settings on my blender. (I was also considering Frappe! Hahaha!) I wanted something that approximated Bananarama and out of nowhere he suggested “…Llama?” We laughed our asses off. The Ladies approved. Our first gig was a hilarious piece of improvised theater. We only had a vague notion of what the songs would be but did designate them as ‘the slow one’, ‘the fast one’, ‘the madrigal’…and had song titles. We all dressed like pagans and caterwauled while beating on pots and pans behind all these leather (or were they vinyl?) cut out panels I had found in a dumpster (not far from CBGB) behind a sweat shop that made shoes. (I was always looking in the trash for décor for the club because of course no one had any money.) We spray-painted everything Day-Glo then ran amok. It was total insanity. Wendy Wild made magic mushroom tea. Everyone loved it so much we booked some other gigs.

But someone thought we should add ‘musicians’ who could really play and then it turned into a ‘band’ and before long of all that petty jealousy shit started. A couple of the girls became real bullying assholes. I would get stomach aches hours before rehearsals. God all the in-fighting was so awful. Dany quit first – while I was in London shooting “The Hunger” and when I got back to NYC, I quit too. The two of us started the damn thing but couldn’t stand another minute. Dany also wrote all the best ‘songs’ but the ‘band’ insisted on all getting co-writing credit. It was a nightmare. I thought it worked best as a chaotic theatrical piece, not as a band. Bands are tricky. I prefer to approach them as performance pieces.

Vulcan Death Grip started that way – with Rudi Protrudi from The Fuzztones. He and I wanted to do a parody of the heavy metal hair bands that were becoming huge then but 5 minutes into the rehearsal it stopped being a parody for me. We rocked!!!! It was so cathartic and great fun! I loved performing in character as Raven Botticelli from Ronkonkoma, Long Island. Raven would say and do things Ann never would! Raven almost got beaten up after a crazy gig at the Ritz where we opened for Jesus and Mary Chain. But she changed into Ann in the dressing room and the pissed off chicks waiting for Raven in the front didn’t recognize Ann – who walked very swiftly to the end of the block then ran like a bat out of hell back to Avenue A!

Ann: At the same time, I had a folk band with Kristian Hoffman and Robert Mache (the guitarist from The Swinging Madisons) just to balance things out and enjoy the other end of the musical spectrum. Gerard Little, also known as “Mr. Fashion” (who has been part of Club 57 but then really took off as a performer and designer at The Pyramid) made me a Strawberry Shortcake outfit out of burlap.

 It was scratchy but funny as hell.

Bongwater started around 1986 and allowed me to really let my Jungian freak flag fly and be truly psychotic as well as psychedelic! And use all those dreams I had been writing down for years. I got a LOT of my anxieties and angst out via Bongwater.

I enjoy being in bands that let me be theatrical. I never wanted to commit to any of them full time because that would be like asking an actor to only play one part all the time. (Something Hollywood does do with typecasting- and I’m always trying to steer clear of that when I can. It’s not easy when you have to earn a paycheck so that’s why you’ll see me repeat a ‘type’ of character.)

Of course, David Bowie- ever the ch-ch-changeling – showed us early on that this sort of shape shifting could be done!

Punk Globe: Back to the Album, I think my favorite track on the “Pretty Songs” is Disassociation. How clever to sing about neurosis and defense mechanisms and wrap them in a sugary pop chorus. Brilliant! What or who was the inspiration for that one?

Ann: I had been steeped in psychology studies for years – mostly starting with a calamitous break up in the mid-90s and I was trying to understand why I kept getting into “situations” that weren’t good for me. I gained some insight into those issues but I couldn’t stop reading about all the various pathologies and ways human beings behave and cope! I’m still fascinated by it all.

I became very aware of my own early tendencies to disassociate (useful as an actor or when going into quasi-shamanic states on stage but not so skillful when navigating personal relationships.) I wanted to have a song about that defense mechanism and thought it should be upbeat and perky- like a confectionary 60s pop hit! Like “Windy” which was always coming up on the classic rock radio station! So I told Kristian “I want a song called Disassociation that sounds like a song by The Association and here are some notes and sample lyrics.” He worked his magic and VOILA!

Punk Globe: Full of Fu-uck. Can we talk? I met a girl named Lydia and took her to Lu-unch?? And what of her Chlamydia pray tell? Are you speaking of a certain NY performance artist from back in the day?  Do tell about that one…

Ann: I hung out with Lydia EONS ago when she lived in Pittsburgh and I was there visiting relatives. She took me to The Andy Warhol Museum and we drove around and chatted and caught up on stuff. I was complaining about not finding the kind of relationship I craved at the time and I was tired of guys who were clearly just in it for the sex. She blurted out, “I am so full of fuck.” I laughed and made sure that one day that would be a song! I gave Kristian a mess of notes and again he worked his magic. Those lines are his – about the Chlamydia. Rhymes with Lydia, ya know? At first I was worried she might be pissed but Kristian, who has known Lydia forever, said ‘oh she won’t care!”

Margaret Cho is name checked in the next verse because I had seen her one-woman show where she talked about never letting an opportunity to have sex pass by because she thought she had to build up “savings” in the ‘fuck bank’ for the dry spells when no one cared. Wise words from funny gals who have been there! As we all have!

Punk Globe: Whatever Happened to New York is a lovely tune as well…mournful and a bit melancholy.

Ann: Yes. Kristian did the music and captured the forlornness of losing a time and a place that meant so much to us. I think I wrote all those lyrics. Maybe it had been a poem first? Not sure.

I was still going back and forth from LA and NYC but had to give up my rent-stabilized apartment in 2003. That was pretty traumatic for me. But downtown NYC had changed so much and certainly 9/11 was the supreme tragedy that topped off all the trauma many of us had already experienced for almost two decades hence watching our close friends and colleagues die of AIDS.

Every corner in New York has a ghost on it. I wanted to acknowledge them.  

Punk Globe: How did you come to leave NY and move to LA? Do you ever get nostalgic about the early days in NY? Many of my friends who left NY for LA years ago say they don’t miss NY at all. Do you agree?

Ann: I don’t miss it at all either but I do miss several of my friends who still live there. I don’t recognize Downtown anymore at all. Or Midtown or Uptown for that matter. I used to get VERY nostalgic about the early days in NYC but not as much now. I’m all about Being Here Now now. Wherever the “here” might be, it’s all about the NOW now. (Hey, that might be a good song?!)

 At this stage of the game, who knows how much NOW we have left? I don’t want to be trapped in the past - or what we often romantically reinvent as the past.

There was a lot of freedom and good times but it wasn’t all clover. There is a lot I do not miss! I look back in amazement and intense gratitude that I survived.

 It was ROUGH there then!  

I travelled to LA in 1982 to visit my mother who had moved here with her second husband. I hated it so much and didn’t return until 1984 when Kristian had moved back to California. I came out to do a gig with Bleaker Street Incident, our folk band together. There had been a crazy blizzard in NYC and it was freezing cold and miserable there. It was sunny and summertime warm in LA. It was literally The Mamas and The Papas song! I quickly changed my mind about LA. Plus I met someone here that I got involved with.

 I also got so charged up from the mid-80s art and music scene in LA.  I met folks like Mike Kelley and the band Redd Kross, discovered cool clubs, way-out very experimental theatre by the likes of Reza Abdoh and saw performances by Survival Research Lab and other wackos who blew my mind. Plus I wanted to get more legit TV and movie acting work. I did the bi-coastal thing for a looooooong time until I lost my apartment on Avenue A in 2003. I was extremely upset about that but I was also tired of the back and forth. Once I got back to LA with my stuff and processed everything I didn’t return to NYC for three years! In fact, Kristian and I returned to NYC together to see Rufus Wainwright debut his Judy Garland thing at Carnegie Hall. (FYI: Rufus sings back up on Whatever Happened to New York) Everyone I knew was in that audience and NO ONE believed me when I said I hadn’t been back in 3 years. I swear, it was like nothing had changed. I realized then I wasn’t missing out on anything by not having an apartment in NYC.

Punk Globe: When you were doing the whole Club 57 thing, the theme nights and the shows, did you ever think that that scene would end up being showcased at MOMA?

Ann: Well…… I always tended to dream big and always thought what we were doing there was special so…I expected SOME recognition would eventually come. Still, it’s a miracle that show happened. There was some nasty griping but I think it was great for everyone! I wasn’t in control of what the museum curators ultimately chose to include in that show. I wish I had been. I did give them all the names of everyone who went there and was constantly begging them to contact more people – long after they said they couldn’t fit in anymore. I didn’t even know what their final checklist was until a month before it opened. I didn’t agree with all their choices and there were some notable omissions but the fact ANY of that stuff ended up in the Museum of Modern Fucking Art is amazing and ultimately benefits everyone who was ever involved in that club. 

Punk Globe: On Acting:You’ve had a pretty fabulous career thus far and have played such an eclectic array of characters. I’m sure everyone has asked you the Bowie questions ad nauseum.

I want to know about Catherine Deneuve. Is she really as icy cool as she appears?

Ann: Well, she APPEARS that way…at first. At the beginning – during my scenes, which were the first ones up in the schedule- she was aloof but very professional. Bowie was excited and very effusive, friendly and outgoing. I was so in awe of the whole experience…

I was standing there in the same room with these icons; you could say I was rather, “disassociated!” Hahaha! But I was paying close attention and taking notes! Needless to say, I was completely star struck. I had never seen anyone who looked like Catherine Deneuve. Of course, I had seen pretty girls and beauty queens where I grew up and there were a lot of stunners in NYC (Donna Destri being one!) but I had never seen ANYONE who was so utterly perfect and luminous like Catherine Deneuve! And I’ve never seen anyone quite like her since! She really looked immortal (perfect for the part of Miriam Blaylock!)

I couldn’t stop staring at her – often in the mirror from behind as I waited my turn in the make-up chair since we all shared the same room for hair and make-up. That was fun fun fun!!! Especially with the ultra-fun Bowie!!! I was worried Deneuve would think I was rude so I’d catch myself staring and look away but then my eyes were constantly drawn back to looking at HER! She is truly a vision! I tell you, if I looked like THAT I’d be icy and aloof. HOWEVER, I went back to visit the set at the end of the shoot – in June (because I had gone to Italy to do a performance – on the same stage as Lydia Lunch by the way!- and then took a train and ferry to London after). When I called the production office they said, come visit the set and I did. Bowie was long gone but Deneuve was there and she was very friendly! She took me out to lunch at a nearby pub with Anthony Clavet, the make-up artist and we had a great time! They even stopped speaking French for me and she asked me all kinds of questions about my trip. Not icy cold at all!

Punk Globe: What was it like being the star of your own sitcom?

Ann: Well, I was a co-star, which is better; you don’t have as much pressure. Still, it is a LOT of work and long hours but I was so thrilled to have a regular job! It was the first real regular paycheck I had ever had! The cast was so smart and funny. I always said if they had shot the rehearsals with all the hilarious improv going on it would’ve been a huge hit show! John Ritter was a producer and joined the cast as a guest star in the final season and I absolutely adored him! OMG I laughed so hard EVERY day when he was on set.

One time he was acting out this story of one of his first jobs as an actor ~as a drug dealer on Hawaii Five-O. 

I laughed so hard at his impression of Jack Lord I cried all my make-up off! 

Ritter was one of the funniest and most charming and sweetest men I have ever met. What a terrible loss when he died so young!

Punk Globe: I loved seeing you on Frasier as the Ditzy Hippie, Harvest. You seem to fit right in with that fabulous and funny ensemble cast. You’re great at both but which do you find easier to do: comedic or dramatic roles?

Ann: It entirely depends on the director and the actors you are working with. Either can be easy or hard depending how how ‘safe’ one feels. I like both comedy and drama but I am so grateful I’ve been doing more dramatic roles lately. Drama tends to give one more opportunities to play different kinds of people and with more subtley. In Season 3 of Man in the High Castle I even got to shoot Nazis! And did my own stunts! (All those years of playing COMBAT in the back yard with the neighborhood kids finally paid off!)

Punk Globe: What is your favorite role so far?

Ann: I played the title role in the play The Book of Liz written by Amy and David Sedaris. That’s one of the best roles written for a middle-aged actress. Liz is a runaway from a nearby Amish-inspired community called The Squeamish. Her recipe for cheese balls makes her a hit with the secular community that she hooks up with by working in a restaurant. It’s a funny version of the heroes’ journey – she goes through some trials and tribulations and finally finds the strength to talk back to the domineering patriarch of the Squeamish and tell him off! It’s a very empowering role. I was in the LA premiere of the play and I got to wear buckteeth and play not just comedy, but also several very moving dramatic scenes as well! My inspiration for the character was Fellini’s wife Giulietta Masina, especially in the films La Strada and Nights of Cabiria. Theater gives you more opportunity for that kind of range. How I would love a film or TV role that let me do that!

Other than that, I’d say my own shows give me the freedom to express myself in diverse and complex ways, options that Hollywood rarely bestows.

Punk Globe: What are three words you’d use to describe yourself?

Ann: Creedence Clearwater Revival?

Just kidding. I remember someone asking me a similar question, decades ago and I was so annoyed at myself that I didn’t think of that answer at the moment (It came to me a day later, of course.) But NOW I can use it!!!

Punk Globe: What is your next project?

Ann: I’ve been making videos for several of the tracks for Pretty Songs with my filmmaker friend Adam Dugas. We unearthed footage that was shot in 2006 when shooting the album cover. Rocky Schenck was the photographer and he finally found the video that he also shot that had been lost for 12 years! We made a video for I Met an Astronaut using NASA footage and recently released on for Falling for an Actor using this found footage from 2006. 

We are now finishing the editing for the last video using more of the 2006 found footage for Cynical Girl. It’s the album cover come to life! 

I am working on new songs and spoken word pieces for a variety of different shows – or one EPIC one-so stay tuned! I also have to get cracking on that memoir since everyone else has one out!

Oh, I’m in two episodes of the fourth and final season of Man in the High Castle which starts streaming November 14th. I’ve also wrapped work as an actress on two additional different TV shows but I can’t tell people about them. Producers of ALL shows have become super-paranoid and insist that everything is super-secret now with the internet.  I suppose the NDA I signed will allow me to say that I have a ‘small but pivotal’ role in each show. Both roles allow me to be very strong women (with two different hair colors- catnip to an actress!) My 2 episodes of one of the shows airs very soon (NOTE: the show is TITANS and Ann’s episodes in Season 2 are Episodes #4 and #8 first airing on September 27 and October 25). The other show is something really special.  It’s driving me crazy that I can’t tell anyone about it but I’m hoping they’ll let the cat out of the bag by the end of the year! My friends are going to FREAK! I can hardly believe it.

In fact, I’ll believe it when I see it.

I’m just now starting to accept the fact that I was in a movie with David Bowie and Catherine Deneuve. Wait, did that REALLY happen????

For more info and links to Ann's videos visit www.annmagnuson.com

Punk Globe would like to thank both Donna Destri and Ann Magnuson for the fun informative interview.